So I've been watching wrestling for longer that I'd like to admit. I remember Booker T from back in his Harlem Heat GWF days and of course watched him evolve in WCW.
While I can definitely appreciate his charisma and mic skills, I fail to see why the IWC loves him so much. His in ring skills are average at best. I think only Sean Waltman uses more variations of the same kick than Booker. The WWE doesn't even let him use the bookend, so he's left with the axe-kick, which looks extremely weak.
If Booker was dating Stephanie and going over Beniot every week, wouldn't the IWC be just as furious with him as they are with HHH?
I'm just curious what it is that everyone else see that I'm missing.
Booker is a charismatic, funny, above average worker, came from humble beginning, worked his way up, works with anybody, makes the person he works with look better, and is an overal nice guy save the Wendy's incident.
I bet that there would be off hand remarks if he dated Steph, but that happens when anyone is dating the bosses daughter. The IWC has no problem with people constantly loosing to Benoit. Look at Kurt Angle and Benoit one on one, Benoit rarely wins.
"Can you be quiet! I'm finishing up with Catherine the Great... Or should I say Catherine the So-So!"
I think it's just people begging for something fresh on top of RAW more then anything else.
I find Booker fairly entertaining and think he deserves a shot to run with the title but I wasn't very impressed with his Rock-Lite schtick as champ in WCW.
His work is good enough but he needs a good opponent to carry him to anything memorable. I think his mic skills are extremely overrated, he often mumbles and trips over his words and is incoherent at times.
His matches lack any sustained crowd heat except for the Spinaroonie and the finish. I blame that more on the fact that he's never been portrayed as anything more then a midcard comedy act and really never gets any wins.
Still, we can pick apart guys faults but in a down period like this, I don't think its time to concentrate on Booker's faults or RVD's faults. They're over, they're fresh, push them as hard as possible and try to get some momenteum.
He just seems so natural. That's what I love about him. Anytime RVD has to do anything but jump around for no apparent reason, it seems forced. Selling, acting with his facials and et cetera. Book just does everything so naturally.
He hasn't always relied on kicks. I saw him carry a lot of people to good matches in WCW, but he's older now and there is also the added impact of the "WWE style" which minimizes oppotunities to use moves that expose 'Taker and Trips as boring, slow-step workers.
"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
For me, it was seeing Booker go from the more talented half of Harlem Heat (in the days before Stevie Ray debuted Fruit Booty, of course) to a successful singles wrestler. When the nWo came in, Booker seemed like one of those really talented guys on the cusp of making it who would probably be lost in the shuffle, but he somehow slowly managed to make the break into the singles ranks and kept momentum going.
It was a lot of fun to watch him go from the Martel feuds and the Benoit feud and the like, heading for the top. When he finally made it to the world title level, there was the satisfaction of seeing one of those guys you root for but never think will get the chance he deserves finally make it there. Unfortunately, that's when they decided to change his character and he was stuck in the dying days of the promotion, so there's still this feeling among people who have been following him, I think, that he can be an even bigger star than he's being used.
His wrestling style isn't quite the same as it used to be - the spinneroonie used to fit better into his matches as a transition from the desperation flying forearm to the climax of the match and the kicks also used to be more of a transitional thing from his tag days to seperate him from Stevie Ray's power than just the heart of his moveset - but that's the shift everyone seems to go through in WWE. There was a time when he had three or four fairly convincing finishers that the crowd believed could end matches and he was regularly working to expand his moveset, working in new things like the sunset flip rollup out of the corner. He's done it in WWE, too, like when he did that standing Hangover on the Big Show to replace the Harlem/Houston Hangover that he doesn't anymore. He's always been able to hold up his end of his big matches and had a great combination of size and skill. Plus, his matches always engage the crowd, something you can see by the way the crowd, today, comes alive when he and Dustin are out there and invariably dies when he or they lose.
I think Booker has a lot in common with Bret Hart, in being a talented worker who managed to go from a tag worker who had great matches in the singles mid-card and had a shot to make it to the top. Even if he's never been as great a technical worker as Bret was (and not many of his WWF/WCW contemporaries were), Booker shares that conviction of character. He's almost always seemed like a guy who isn't playing a transparent role, but being himself and making it work. The times he hasn't worked as a character have been when he was forced into roles, like when WCW turned him into a cheap Rock knockoff and the WWF tried the same thing in a heel mode. But in this past year, he's gotten back to showing that conviction in character that you can see when he has segments with Dustin. He's managed to pull off playing annoyed and confused by him but still get the underlying friendship thing across. I think that's his biggest strength and why he continues to connect with people.
If Albert was this over, there wouldn't be so many complaints about his push (there'd still be complaints, definitley. Just not as much).
If used right, the guy could be the next Rock. And remeber, we didn't think Rock was a great worker either, but look how many ***** matches he's had in his main event run. And even when we thought he was a crappy worker, people still thought he deserved his push in 1998, because he was OVER.
A guy like Booker T can relate to the fans. He has the intangible to be a star. And when a guy has that intangible, it ultimatley means money. Vince just has to open his eyes to it.
You thought watching Thunder was bad? Raw is like watching Thunder in re-runs.
OK, I'll bite, how many ***** matches has Rock had?
And Rock isn't a great worker. Good worker, but not great.
Matthew: You would've loved it, David. A week in a foreign country, strange people, strange customs... Dave: Oh, I know what you mean. I've been to Canada.
Originally posted by Hogan's My DadHe just seems so natural. That's what I love about him. Anytime RVD has to do anything but jump around for no apparent reason, it seems forced. Selling, acting with his facials and et cetera. Book just does everything so naturally.
He hasn't always relied on kicks. I saw him carry a lot of people to good matches in WCW, but he's older now and there is also the added impact of the "WWE style" which minimizes oppotunities to use moves that expose 'Taker and Trips as boring, slow-step workers.
Oh yes, Trips is an old fart, all right... I think Booker should be given a chance, because he's been very motivated lately, and that makes a difference in the long run. And if he makes said old fart look better, then it's all good, right?
Ringmistress
Hi, I'm the Ringmistress and I have a crush on the IWC's most hated man. Do strait jackets come in one size fits all?
OK, I'll bite, how many ***** matches has Rock had?
Poor foolish boy. You had me bust out the list.
vs. HHH: Summerslam'98. Ladder Match.
vs. Mandkind. Royal Rumble 99. I Quit.
vs. HHH. Judgement Day 00. Iron Man Match.
vs. Benoit. Vengance 00. WWE Title
vs. HHH vs. Kurt. Summerslam 00. Triple Threat.
vs. Kurt. No Way Out '01. WWF Title
vs. Austin. Wrestlemania '01. WWF Title
vs. Jericho. No Mercy'01. WCW Title
vs. Hogan. Wrestlemania '02.
vs. Taker vs. Kurt. Vengance '02. WWE Title
vs. Brock. Summerslam 02. WWE Title
I'd also like to bring in these matches as well as.
Mick's first title win, Survivor Series 98, Wrestlemania X5, Royal Rumble 2000, Backlash 2000, and hundreds of other matches were he made the matches exciting and fun to watch.
A Fan- Yes, Booker T is the main, because he is the average guy.
Here is my "problem" with Booker T. No finisher. He had the Book End but that's only when Rock is not around. He uses that Axe Kick but that rarely gets a pin on anyone but mid-carders. He needs a finisher. And one that he can do on anyone. I judge a good finisher on one that would work well on both say, Spike Dudley and The Big Show.
HHH-Pedigree Austin-Stunner Undertaker-Last Ride...Dragon Sleeper on bigger guys The Rock-Rock Bottom Kurt Angle- Angle Slam Brock Lesnar- F5 Rob Van Dam- Five Star Frog Splash Chris Jericho- Lionsault (?) Walls (a little on this later)
This is my "problem" with Chris Benoit also. Submission finishers do NOT apply because top guys do not job to a submission finisher.
OOPS! You bwoke it.
The requested URL was not found.
We're sorry, you did something wrong.
Some possible reasons for this error are listed below:
The page you have requested no longer exists. You have your head up your stupid, ugly butt. The page you have requested has been moved. Your crappy computer is full of crap, crap, and more crap. The web site you are trying to reach no longer exists. Homestar is a stupid crap for brains webmaster. ____________________
Absolutely NOTHING important happens on the internet
Originally posted by A Fan OK, I'll bite, how many ***** matches has Rock had?
Poor foolish boy. You had me bust out the list.
vs. HHH: Summerslam'98. Ladder Match.
vs. Mandkind. Royal Rumble 99. I Quit.
vs. HHH. Judgement Day 00. Iron Man Match.
vs. Benoit. Vengance 00. WWE Title
vs. HHH vs. Kurt. Summerslam 00. Triple Threat.
vs. Kurt. No Way Out '01. WWF Title
vs. Austin. Wrestlemania '01. WWF Title
vs. Jericho. No Mercy'01. WCW Title
vs. Hogan. Wrestlemania '02.
vs. Taker vs. Kurt. Vengance '02. WWE Title
vs. Brock. Summerslam 02. WWE Title
I'd also like to bring in these matches as well as.
Mick's first title win, Survivor Series 98, Wrestlemania X5, Royal Rumble 2000, Backlash 2000, and hundreds of other matches were he made the matches exciting and fun to watch.
A Fan- Yes, Booker T is the main, because he is the average guy.
11 ***** matches? Are you nuts? Flair's only had a few that are universally considered ***** matches, and he's generally regarded as the best N. American wrestler. I'll admit I don't order PPV's, so I haven't seen a lot of those matches (I did see the Brock SS 2002 match and the Hogan WM 2002, and neither were *****), but I don't think I've seen anybody rate any or all of these matches *****.
There's a difference between "personally entertaining" and *****. Five star is reserved for the "perfect" match. I was entertained by Chuck/Billy vs. Tajiri/Knoble, but that doesn't mean I'd rate it *****.
I do realize that * ratings are very subjective, so it's almost pointless to argue them, but to say Rock's had 11 plus 5 others that are ***** is a bit of a stretch.
Matthew: You would've loved it, David. A week in a foreign country, strange people, strange customs... Dave: Oh, I know what you mean. I've been to Canada.
Originally posted by Hogan's My DadHe just seems so natural. That's what I love about him. Anytime RVD has to do anything but jump around for no apparent reason, it seems forced. Selling, acting with his facials and et cetera. Book just does everything so naturally.
He hasn't always relied on kicks. I saw him carry a lot of people to good matches in WCW, but he's older now and there is also the added impact of the "WWE style" which minimizes oppotunities to use moves that expose 'Taker and Trips as boring, slow-step workers.
Oh yes, Trips is an old fart, all right... I think Booker should be given a chance, because he's been very motivated lately, and that makes a difference in the long run. And if he makes said old fart look better, then it's all good, right?
Ringmistress
Ringmistress, can you please calm down...Every little comment I make that in any way involves Triple H does not need a retort. Seriously. I have no problem with the guy, and now you're seeing comments that aren't even there in the first place. I said Triple H was boring and slow-step. I never said he was old. I was never a fan of his work, and I said most of my anti-Trips stuff a long time ago. You wouldn't notice this, but I rarely comment in RAW threads anymore because there's nothing left to say about him.
My point was, Booker used stiffer, more entertaining moves in WCW than he does now. He used stuff in the WCW mid-card that would make Trip's and Taker's stuff look pretty bad today. If you like Triple H...Fine. But he's slow. Let's not kid ourselves. I know you like Triple H...And I like Hogan, so I know what it's like to have your fav be the #1 net enemy, but let's not be oversensitive. I am not a HHHater, I just don't find anything he does entertaining anymore and I never really did.
"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
I call them as I see them. Flair has more then five ****mathces. I wouldn't go by Scott Keith either, he has tendancy to let his opinion get in the way. Oops, thats everyone on the net.
I love Booker T because he is Something New. I just want to see somebody new to the top get there, and it is hard not to cheer for that someone to be a guy like Booker T because you have seen him work so damn hard around so much crap for so long.
Man, where's GI Bro when you need him? Now, THERE'S a man that could win the World Heavyweight Belt. Remember when they used to wear Biore Strips? Ah, those were the days. I wish Stevie Ray did announcing instead of The Cat.
--e.o.c.s.
Hip hop meets philosophical commentary (plus free music samples!):
I think Booker has not gotten further due to the (unfair) comparison of him to the Rock. If the rumors are true about Rocky leaving the WWE for a full time movie career then I think The Book might finally get a run with the belt.
As far as a finisher goes, I always thought that top rope flipping leg drop to the back of the head (Harlem Hangover?) looked pretty damn finishing to me.
Bubbles? Oh come on Sharon! I’m Ozzy Osbourne the Prince of Fucking Darkness. Evil, evil, more fucking evil not a boatload of fucking bubbles man.
Originally posted by JacksonI think Booker has not gotten further due to the (unfair) comparison of him to the Rock. If the rumors are true about Rocky leaving the WWE for a full time movie career then I think The Book might finally get a run with the belt.
As far as a finisher goes, I always thought that top rope flipping leg drop to the back of the head (Harlem Hangover?) looked pretty damn finishing to me.
I thought he didn't want to do the Hangover any more because he didn't think he could do it and make it look good much longer?
I've always liked the Axe Kick, but the setup is REALLY contrived, I'll admit.
Satire 2/24 (I promise to learn the new coding by next week) Buffy 7.16 gets a 7.65372 Andrew is funny, but I'm not sure that we needed "The Andrew Episode".
In relation to the comments about his finisher, i think we'll see Booker break out something special in his match with Trips. Your right if you say the axe kick isn't a WM finisher and Booker knows this as well as we do. That's why i also think Brock is gonna bust out the Shooting Star Press for Kurt because i can't see Kurt going down after one F5, simply to make the match better they'll whip up something special.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that top rope moves deserve to get the 3-count alot more then they do in a standard context. Only RVD and J.Hardy win with consistency with them. this WM could be the start of a newer trend in top rope finishes
I know its not a finisher style move but Bookers corner vault 180* sunset flip is a damn sweet move.
...But remember this. ROCK...CRUSHES...SCISSORS...but scissors cuts paper...and paper wraps rock...KIFF, we have a conundrum. (Yes, eat all of our shirts!)
hey gotta hope for something. a little blind faith is more fun then open cynicism
...But remember this. ROCK...CRUSHES...SCISSORS...but scissors cuts paper...and paper wraps rock...KIFF, we have a conundrum. (Yes, eat all of our shirts!)
While I don't necessarily like the idea of two MITB briefcases floating around, especially with the brand split as week as it is, I'm disappointed they're getting rid of this PPV rather than Fatal Four-Way or some other awful gimmick PPV (and bringing bac...